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Poster: Arck Date: May 25, 2009 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

My post sounded more negative than I intended. I think it's odd that the Caution/Feedback, Midnight Hour runs slow (it's only a little slow, around half a step I think) when the speed appears to be uniform (i.e. simply raising the pitch across the whole segment would seem to give an approximately correct pitch the whole way).

I think the release itself is great and I love the show. It probably bothers me more than it should because the Alligator> Caution> Feedback is by far my favourite part of this show.

Jeffery Norman commented on the Road Trips download speed issue. To paraphrase he said that they go for integrity to the source recording rather than the concert pitch. He suggested that guitars went in and out of tune so often (sometimes noticably within one song) that it's hard to be sure that every song was played at concert pitch and therefore hard to "correct" pitch because he can't always be sure what the correct pitch was.

As for the new release there's definitely a lot fluctuating tuning and singing going on (as there is for a lot of early 1968 especially) but I just felt that the last part could have been sped out fractionally and we would have had a completely complete release (instead of the almost completely complete release we have).

I applaud the release generally though. The bonus stuff is amazing and the first 3/4 of the 14 Feb show sound brilliant. Once the patch kicks in the sound is pretty funky but at least for most of Alligator, it's practically in tune the whole way. It's a pity the Alligator> Caution was no doubt butchered for the Anthem album.

Ah well - this is something recorded over 41 years ago. It sounds pretty good considering!

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Poster: BillyBuck Date: May 25, 2009 6:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

>>Jeffery Norman commented on the Road Trips download speed issue. To paraphrase he said that they go for integrity to the source recording rather than the concert pitch. He suggested that guitars went in and out of tune so often (sometimes noticably within one song) that it's hard to be sure that every song was played at concert pitch and therefore hard to "correct" pitch because he can't always be sure what the correct pitch was.<<

As someone who does a lot of amateur tape restoration, I'm really surprised to hear him cop out like that! To accurately recreate a music event, reasonably correct pitch is far more important than frequency response, noise, even mild distortion. I don't think it's worth getting anal over less than a semitone's difference, but anything greater than that and you're hearing a far different performance than the original.

Staying in tune was definitely tougher back then, but they would have had to tune to Pig's organ (or later, Keith's piano) so it's not like there isn't a reference. Also, basses tend to hold their tuning much better than guitars, so why not use Phil?

Also, it seems like any necessary speed adjustment would apply for an entire reel of tape, rather than song-by-song. (Assuming there wasn't a major problem with the recording deck).

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Poster: Arck Date: May 25, 2009 7:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

Yeah, I'm definitely paraphrasing. I'll try to find it from dead.net.

[some time later]

Argh, my memory betrayed me. Jeffrey Norman made a short post about the downloads (and it was specific to the recording medium so is not very relevant here). It's available at http://www.dead.net/features/release-info/new-full-show-downloads?page=4 and is the fourth last comment.

The stuff about recording medium integrity vs correct pitch was talked about in discussions following Jeffery's post by other users. Apologies to Jeffrey for misquoting him.

I'm nitpicking and I agree with the sentiment that if something ain't broke, don't fix it. I guess in this my argument isn't that something is broke but more that something is 90% complete and works fine but why not just fix the final 10% if it isn't too hard.

I suppose that begs the question: was it too hard to fix this speed issue? Maybe there are many other reasons for this.

I've been emailing David L regarding the early 1968 releases (and have received some responses). He's a bit reluctant to make definitive statements about periods like this when so much is unknown (I'm sure it's come back to bite him before) but I'll try to crack the 14/02 multi-track/patch nut with him soon!

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Poster: Skobud Date: May 27, 2009 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

Pitch problems are frequent especially with reel to reel. Tape warble can cause serious pitch issues as far as channel vs. channel. In other words, your left channel could be proper and your right could be off or even nonexistent. Using both channels or remixing them into one from the original source on this one was probably a challenge to say the least. Another cause is the head of the machine being out of calibration. Oscillation will cause similar problems as well. Im not even sure of the rig they were using at the time....

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 27, 2009 2:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

Whoa! Holy "Group Credenza Award" Batman! You all really do know what you're talking about...

Impressive. Rare posters with much to say...hmmm.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 27, 2009 4:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

As opposed to frequent posters with little to say? I resemble that remark, sir! ;-)

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 27, 2009 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

Yep. It's an ecological truism: most species are rare, while few species are common. Think "Poisson" distribution (my favorite kind). And, a corollary: common species are often generalists, while rare species are more typically specialists. Now, getting your students to grasp this is not as easy as it might seem on the face of these simplistic inferences...

Draw your own conclusions. When I was in Uni, we never considered ourselves deserving of an education, why...we walked uphill, both ways, thru the snow, to get to school each day...did I mention we were barefoot? Nowadays kids take a consumerist approach in which they take it as a given, presumably as a result of their tuition, that they are entitled to a high grade, as if purchased, rather than it being the case they have only purchased the opportunity for learning...

I would suggest that you can best consider yourself a specialist, rare and refined, comfortable in your niche, here in the Ecological Community we call Forum Land.

Did you ever imagine your brief humorous comment would elicit such a rant from a disgruntled Tell?

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 27, 2009 5:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

That's OK; I like 'adult portions' and that one will take some time to digest, yessirree. :) Not the response I expected, which is a positive right there. That being said, if you are doing an anthropological study of the fauna on this blog, you shouldnae blow your cover...

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Poster: Skobud Date: May 28, 2009 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

:

This post was modified by Skobud on 2009-05-28 11:53:18

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 28, 2009 7:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: most recent Road trips 2/14/68

Hmmm, took me a while to find this...can't believe I was so cranky about students and such yesterday...oh well, a new day, new hope (star wars or otherwise).